2004 Kia Optima-No Power Windows-Gauges Inop

ID	Status	Date	Year	Make	Model	Transmission Type	A/C Controls	Public/Private
#12958	Closed	January 30, 2018 9:47 pm	2004	KIA	Optima			public

January 30, 2018 9:47 pm 7 years ago

Trying this again. I have followed your instructions. I have power to relay and module pink wire and the LED’s are on.

Also no cruise control and instrument lights are on but no fuel levels.

All of the fuses appear to be fine. I tested them with a trouble light and DVD meter.

Sparky

January 31, 2018 5:37 am 7 years ago

You will need to check for ground on the black wire also. If Okay then you will need to test the signals to the power window motor wiring as outlined in the attached diagram.

January 31, 2018 9:39 pm 7 years ago

Hello:
I am at my wits end. The schematic you sent might be correct, but the pinouts are different.
In Review:
1. No Power Windows
The relay clicks – I swapped it out but the problem remains.
I have B+ on the pink wire going into the module. (There is only one pink wire.) Except for the wires leaving the connector,
(black, brown, etc.) there are no individual wires running between components on the PCB, thus as stated, the schematic you sent does not match up. #3 is the pink wire. The PCB markings are B+, D1, D2, etc.
I found a voltage point that was less than 12V, but it too went no place.
All four of the LED’s light up.
The door lock works.
The B+ goes noplace. I have used a troubleshooting lamp on all points of the PCB. Nothing.
I went to junk a yard and purchased another power window board. Same problem.
While there I also picked up a black control box. Swapped it out too. Other than the engine ran a little rough, the problem remains.
2. No fuel Gauge
3. No tachometer
4. Possibly No Speedometer
I have instrument lights, interior lights, and the sunroof operates fine. All of the exterior lights, including the Fog light and high beam works.
The car starts and runs fine
I have checked all of the fuses inside and out, including swapping out the larger 20, 30 and 40 A box fuses
I am in possible agreement with you about an open ground except where do I start? Where can I safely put a jumper on the ground points?

Sparky

February 1, 2018 6:02 am 7 years ago

I would assume by PCB you are referring to the printed circuit board of the module (ETACS) that is attached to the fuse box. If so then you need to shift your attention to the wiring at the driver’s power window switch which is the focus of the wiring diagram . The ETACS only involvement in the power windows is to turn on the power window relay which you state it is doing. I understand that you also have gauge problems and while it is good to know about I want to focus on the power window issue first. With any luck the repair of the power window may also correct some of the other problems.

February 1, 2018 7:49 pm 7 years ago

I have spent hours today, moving this and that. BTW, I have 44+ years with IBM and EDS. I am retired now but troubleshooting does not change with technology. Anyway, once again, the schematic you provided does mot match the wires I am looking at. I can put B+ and gnd on the blue and brown wires and make the windows go up and down.

As already mentioned, there is only one pink wire. I would like to send you pictures but the smallest I can take is 4.7 M (Galaxy S8+)

Where the connector plugs into the board, the label does not have 1,2,3,4, etc but B+, D1, D2, U1, U2, etc. Also the connector has white and black wires, your schematic does not mention these.

February 1, 2018 7:50 pm 7 years ago

Here is another picture

February 1, 2018 7:51 pm 7 years ago

And one more

February 1, 2018 8:03 pm 7 years ago

I came across this schematic and it matches more closely the connections and labels. It even mentions the white and black wires. Somewhere in my long ago, the letter “L” stood for Blue. Why I remember this I don’t know.

February 1, 2018 8:04 pm 7 years ago

Finally

Sparky

February 1, 2018 8:32 pm 7 years ago

Hate to tell you this but the schematic I supplied and the one you supplied match and also match with the connector pin out that you provided. The thing that is throwing you off is that you expect pink to be pink like any normal person would. As you stated you have one pink wire and it is for the switch lighting on terminal 4 but you also have pink wires at positions 9,10 and 13. The problem is in the automotive world (particularly Korean) color is subjective. The light orange or tan wires in your connector are actually pink. You also mentioned that the letter L is used for blue which also matches all of the diagrams and pictures. Please compare the wiring in your connector with the terminal orientation in this image 20180201_225954.jpg that you supplied. Now with the keys that “L” equals Blue and pink equals light orange or tan everything should be clear.

February 2, 2018 2:39 pm 7 years ago

ok, I went back and yes you’re right. i relabeled the drawing as i see it with the colors as shown. It started to gel. I have a huge,company supplied jumper battery,which i can use to apply voltages at various stages and find where it is getting lost. Thanks for the patience.

February 2, 2018 4:01 pm 7 years ago

Update: No B+ at pin 10. Relay clicks, swapped it out, same. it clicks. Put 40 Amp Pwr Window fuse on wire extensions and using light probe found B+ present on both terminals. So unless you say different, the problem appears to be internal to the fuse box.

February 2, 2018 5:38 pm 7 years ago

Houston we have ignition!!!! The problem was the interior fuse box itself. I indicated I had been to the junk yard a day or two ago. While there I had procured both the interior and exterior fuse boxes. I had swapped out the exterior box, but hesitated swapping the interior. As indicated above, once I understood the legends on the schematic and determine B+ was going anyplace, it had to be the box. Swapped it out and now all the gauges are working as does the windows.

BTW, how did this all start? Because I failed to fix a problem when I had first seen it. That is, the rear Left Hand license plate lamp had fallen out of the socket. I kept promising I’d fix the next day, and the next, which turned into three months. Over time, the bulb cover accumulated water, rusting out the lamp components which caused a short. So even though I had pulled the lamp, the wires behind the connector were rusted together, but I kept replacing fuses to get a handle on why. It started out with a simple hairline blown fuse and soon became a full blown, black burn. So by replacing the fuses, which I had no clue why they were blowing, this turned into a lesson. I hope others reading this will learn too.

Sparky

February 2, 2018 6:09 pm 7 years ago

We all know the general saying to not put off until tomorrow what you can accomplish today. I remember a high school teacher explaining that “tomorrow” never comes.

February 2, 2018 11:07 pm 7 years ago

Sorry but I couldn’t resist. I had to open the interior fuse defective box and see for myself, why I had so much trouble. Once you look at these photos, you’ll be scratching your head too. The burned area says ROOF. Say what!! Yes, ROOF. I have been in computers and electronics for over 44+ years and not ceased to be amazed at what can happen.

February 2, 2018 11:09 pm 7 years ago

Here is the front side of the board(s)

Sparky

February 3, 2018 2:09 pm 7 years ago

Don’t be sorry. I have opened up defective parts all of my life to gain insight into a problem. I feel sure that ROOF is in reference to either a harness that travels into the headliner area or is for a sunroof option.

I have to interject another thought and that is that the terminals and circuit board look to be water damaged instead of heat damaged. I would caution you to closely inspect the matching harness connector and check for the same whitish substance. Also look above the fuse box area and look for any other signs of water intrusion.

	January 30, 2018 9:47 pm 7 years ago Trying this again. I have followed your instructions. I have power to relay and module pink wire and the LED’s are on. Also no cruise control and instrument lights are on but no fuel levels. All of the fuses appear to be fine. I tested them with a trouble light and DVD meter.
	Sparky January 31, 2018 5:37 am 7 years ago You will need to check for ground on the black wire also. If Okay then you will need to test the signals to the power window motor wiring as outlined in the attached diagram.
	January 31, 2018 9:39 pm 7 years ago Hello: I am at my wits end. The schematic you sent might be correct, but the pinouts are different. In Review: 1. No Power Windows The relay clicks – I swapped it out but the problem remains. I have B+ on the pink wire going into the module. (There is only one pink wire.) Except for the wires leaving the connector, (black, brown, etc.) there are no individual wires running between components on the PCB, thus as stated, the schematic you sent does not match up. #3 is the pink wire. The PCB markings are B+, D1, D2, etc. I found a voltage point that was less than 12V, but it too went no place. All four of the LED’s light up. The door lock works. The B+ goes noplace. I have used a troubleshooting lamp on all points of the PCB. Nothing. I went to junk a yard and purchased another power window board. Same problem. While there I also picked up a black control box. Swapped it out too. Other than the engine ran a little rough, the problem remains. 2. No fuel Gauge 3. No tachometer 4. Possibly No Speedometer I have instrument lights, interior lights, and the sunroof operates fine. All of the exterior lights, including the Fog light and high beam works. The car starts and runs fine I have checked all of the fuses inside and out, including swapping out the larger 20, 30 and 40 A box fuses I am in possible agreement with you about an open ground except where do I start? Where can I safely put a jumper on the ground points?
	Sparky February 1, 2018 6:02 am 7 years ago I would assume by PCB you are referring to the printed circuit board of the module (ETACS) that is attached to the fuse box. If so then you need to shift your attention to the wiring at the driver’s power window switch which is the focus of the wiring diagram . The ETACS only involvement in the power windows is to turn on the power window relay which you state it is doing. I understand that you also have gauge problems and while it is good to know about I want to focus on the power window issue first. With any luck the repair of the power window may also correct some of the other problems.
	February 1, 2018 7:49 pm 7 years ago I have spent hours today, moving this and that. BTW, I have 44+ years with IBM and EDS. I am retired now but troubleshooting does not change with technology. Anyway, once again, the schematic you provided does mot match the wires I am looking at. I can put B+ and gnd on the blue and brown wires and make the windows go up and down. As already mentioned, there is only one pink wire. I would like to send you pictures but the smallest I can take is 4.7 M (Galaxy S8+) Where the connector plugs into the board, the label does not have 1,2,3,4, etc but B+, D1, D2, U1, U2, etc. Also the connector has white and black wires, your schematic does not mention these.
	February 1, 2018 7:50 pm 7 years ago Here is another picture
	February 1, 2018 7:51 pm 7 years ago And one more
	February 1, 2018 8:03 pm 7 years ago I came across this schematic and it matches more closely the connections and labels. It even mentions the white and black wires. Somewhere in my long ago, the letter “L” stood for Blue. Why I remember this I don’t know.
	February 1, 2018 8:04 pm 7 years ago Next
	February 1, 2018 8:04 pm 7 years ago Finally
	Sparky February 1, 2018 8:32 pm 7 years ago Hate to tell you this but the schematic I supplied and the one you supplied match and also match with the connector pin out that you provided. The thing that is throwing you off is that you expect pink to be pink like any normal person would. As you stated you have one pink wire and it is for the switch lighting on terminal 4 but you also have pink wires at positions 9,10 and 13. The problem is in the automotive world (particularly Korean) color is subjective. The light orange or tan wires in your connector are actually pink. You also mentioned that the letter L is used for blue which also matches all of the diagrams and pictures. Please compare the wiring in your connector with the terminal orientation in this image 20180201_225954.jpg that you supplied. Now with the keys that “L” equals Blue and pink equals light orange or tan everything should be clear.
	February 2, 2018 2:39 pm 7 years ago ok, I went back and yes you’re right. i relabeled the drawing as i see it with the colors as shown. It started to gel. I have a huge,company supplied jumper battery,which i can use to apply voltages at various stages and find where it is getting lost. Thanks for the patience.
	February 2, 2018 4:01 pm 7 years ago Update: No B+ at pin 10. Relay clicks, swapped it out, same. it clicks. Put 40 Amp Pwr Window fuse on wire extensions and using light probe found B+ present on both terminals. So unless you say different, the problem appears to be internal to the fuse box.
	February 2, 2018 5:38 pm 7 years ago Houston we have ignition!!!! The problem was the interior fuse box itself. I indicated I had been to the junk yard a day or two ago. While there I had procured both the interior and exterior fuse boxes. I had swapped out the exterior box, but hesitated swapping the interior. As indicated above, once I understood the legends on the schematic and determine B+ was going anyplace, it had to be the box. Swapped it out and now all the gauges are working as does the windows. BTW, how did this all start? Because I failed to fix a problem when I had first seen it. That is, the rear Left Hand license plate lamp had fallen out of the socket. I kept promising I’d fix the next day, and the next, which turned into three months. Over time, the bulb cover accumulated water, rusting out the lamp components which caused a short. So even though I had pulled the lamp, the wires behind the connector were rusted together, but I kept replacing fuses to get a handle on why. It started out with a simple hairline blown fuse and soon became a full blown, black burn. So by replacing the fuses, which I had no clue why they were blowing, this turned into a lesson. I hope others reading this will learn too.
	Sparky February 2, 2018 6:09 pm 7 years ago We all know the general saying to not put off until tomorrow what you can accomplish today. I remember a high school teacher explaining that “tomorrow” never comes.
	February 2, 2018 11:07 pm 7 years ago Sorry but I couldn’t resist. I had to open the interior fuse defective box and see for myself, why I had so much trouble. Once you look at these photos, you’ll be scratching your head too. The burned area says ROOF. Say what!! Yes, ROOF. I have been in computers and electronics for over 44+ years and not ceased to be amazed at what can happen.
	February 2, 2018 11:09 pm 7 years ago Here is the front side of the board(s)
	Sparky February 3, 2018 2:09 pm 7 years ago Don’t be sorry. I have opened up defective parts all of my life to gain insight into a problem. I feel sure that ROOF is in reference to either a harness that travels into the headliner area or is for a sunroof option. I have to interject another thought and that is that the terminals and circuit board look to be water damaged instead of heat damaged. I would caution you to closely inspect the matching harness connector and check for the same whitish substance. Also look above the fuse box area and look for any other signs of water intrusion.

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